Cancer of the Head
Ashigaru
(id: say1988)
posted 07-02-10 12:04 PM
EDT (US)
2 / 21
Completely and utterly pointeless to consider.
So many variables and so much ambiguity it isn't even worth thining about.
theboyne
Ashigaru
posted 07-04-10 10:19 AM
EDT (US)
7 / 21
Varangian Guard - single unit, turned out famous heroes on a regular basis, historically recorded unbending loyalty, Spartan level of mythos, frequently given the task of dealing with anybody too tough for the rest of the army (which all said and done was a still Byzantine army).
Rifle Brigade (Wellingtons Peninsula army) - trained and equipped to perform functions that rest of the army wasn't trained for. Expected to perform above and beyond and did so against Napoleon.
I would oppose Legio Yow's choice of the Iranian Republican Guard since, in my mind at least, their elite status comes specifically from politcal consideration, not actual abilities.
An elite can only be considered such by action, not word. As the US army says, "you talk the talk, do you walk the walk".
theboyne
Ashigaru
posted 07-07-10 08:03 PM
EDT (US)
10 / 21
I agree with Gnarlyhotep that you need guidelines.
Three important points on an "elite" unit need to be stated.
1. When - some famous units have existed for centuries and had both high and low points in their history (the Royal Scots for example existed as an independent regiment from 1633-2006 and the Roman 9th legion was raised by Julius Caesar in 65BC and disappeared in 161AD - both had many battle honours but also devastating defeats). You have to specify WHEN they were an elite unit in your eyes.
2. Where - It's in the nature of elite units to be "specialised". A unit trained to fight one opponent (for instance, both English longbow men and Swiss pikemen where above average effectiveness when fighting heavy cavalry but sucked against cannons).
3. Why - saying a unit is "kick-ass, hardcore elite because it's like, you know, got big guns, huge swords, spiky armour and runs around screaming warcries" does NOT make it elite - it makes it the unit most likely to be used to run suicidal decoy attacks against the front of enemy formations while the rest of the army sneaks round the back. It's also not an elite unit if it's massive bodycount and numerous "battle honours" relate to how effective it was at killing civilians. The Iraqi Republican Guard was considered an "elite" unit because it was tougher than those it fought. Then it ran into people who where trained, equipped and prepared to face a massive Soviet invasion as envisaged in the cold war. Stuff "bringing a knife to a gun fight", more "bringing a spud gun to a tank battle".
That's why I consider the Varangian Guard a real elite. They successfully fought and beat whatever they fought in their time. Given their close-order style of fighting though and they would have suffered against gunpowder.
Alpha211
Ashigaru
posted 01-22-11 04:12 PM
EDT (US)
17 / 21
prob a very late comment but the SAS has got to be a brilliant elite force. however if speaking in the past then the spartan hoplite was a brilliant unit although they did have some weaknesses (such as a spartan brigade that was wiped out by greek skirmishers) roman legionaries were quite good but mongol warroirs pulled together quite a brilliant system for "nomads"..... the list gos on but there are some weaknesses & brilliant strengths in every unit
Rinster
Ashigaru
posted 01-23-11 02:36 AM
EDT (US)
18 / 21
Just to add my two cents, I would say my choices would be Caesar's tenth legion, always his favorite that (almost) never let him down.
My other(s) would include Alexander's companion cavalry, even though I don't know how many of them there were or if the same units were with him all the way.
I'm sure I can think of others, but its 2:30 in the morning and i am tired
PraeQuae
Ashigaru
posted 07-20-11 00:43 AM
EDT (US)
19 / 21
I think the Manchu clan Aisin Gioro that took over China in the 1600's were elite warriors. They were trained swordsmen and horse archers that rode in and set up a 300 year dynasty in the most populous country in the world.