IE6 is not supported at this time. Please consider upgrading to Internet Explorer 9, FireFox, Apple Safari, or Google Chrome.

Total War: Shogun 2 Heaven



  You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Campaign & General Discussion
Moderated by Scipii

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.14 replies
Total War: Shogun 2 Heaven » Forums » Campaign & General Discussion » I love legendary mode
Bottom
Topic Subject:I love legendary mode
Natalinasmpf
Banned
posted 10-13-11 06:12 AM EDT (US)         
Although I wish they didn't disable the Slow-Mo.

The AI are kind of fantastic -- there are so many "Powerful" clans on the map, and for once 10 years into the game I'm a mediocre six-province clan, where I am genuinely struggling for every single edge over much larger and aggressive clans.

In order to rise to power, I had to wait two years for a player I was at peace with to go off fighting some far-off land only for me to declare war, and seize very profitable provinces. (Before that I was dirt poor.)

I've had to use ambushes, and lie in wait for a clan's much more powerful army to come along. Partially because without slow-mo and resave, I cannot be as sure of a victory -- I need to count on every advantage. (So the commandment bonus for ambushes are finally useful.)


My one fear is how nasty Realm Divide will be.
AuthorReplies:
Warguppy
Ashigaru
posted 10-13-11 07:17 PM EDT (US)     1 / 14       
Since I don't have this game (at least not yet) what is slo-mo? Slow motion I take it but does that mean the game runs in real time on the campaign map? Or is it just in the battles?

Life was much easier before I developed a sense of ethics.
Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 10-15-11 11:37 AM EDT (US)     2 / 14       
I have to admit I've only played with Legendary very briefly, but I stopped because I don't like the huge bonuses for the AI. I like a challenge, but I do like it to be a fair one.

Slowmotion is for battles only Warguppy. It sits in the speed options between pause and normal, so it helps you keep track of things in the heat of the battle.

          Hussarknight
Liam_the_Spartan
Banned
posted 10-16-11 05:36 AM EDT (US)     3 / 14       
I have played it a few times, but always seem to lose after taking 4 provinces. I have a bad battle then my army is dead, nice. Game over.
Natalinasmpf
Banned
posted 10-19-11 04:38 AM EDT (US)     4 / 14       
Yes -- in Legendary Mode you have to hedge your risk, you see. You would act like you do in real life, rather than recklessly. This means, you are more careful about how you attack and defend.

A strong castle in key areas becomes more important, because it allows you to have a relatively strong garrison with relatively weak upkeep.

In a game where I'm playing Chosokabe, I just attacked a "Terrifying" and "Rich" opponent (12 provinces) by surprise, capturing Buzen province in Kyushu, and then sweeping on the other "very fertile" provinces in Kyushu. Buzen was built up with a fortress, which made it strategically ideal to defend. My enemy is still more powerful than me, and now the Christian Sagara to the south have also declared war on me, but we'll see...
Natalinasmpf
Banned
posted 10-19-11 04:55 AM EDT (US)     5 / 14       
Also a trick is that you can alt-tab and quit a critical battle if it goes really badly. Then you can reload -- but only at that exact battle.

I do this to counter the annoying effect of having no slo-mo. Sometimes your armies do stupid things while in an ambush.

Also here I regard ambushes as very important. If you play an ambush right (I often had to quit halfway and reload if I was really desperate) you can divide the enemy's army in two. The AI likes to get to withdraw safe ground on a battlefield in an ambush... archers get left behind...and cause a rout, even with inferior forces, because of your flanking advantage.

Some ambush tactics

My favourite in an ambush, if geography permits, is to put an archer-laden detachment (with a yari unit or two to defend against cavalry charges and to buy time against melee infantry) on a hill on one side of the enemy, and your strong melee units on the other. With luck you can even field three detachments (cavalry/horse archers, melee infantry, archers).

If they charge the archers on the hill, your infantry will quickly follow into their rear. Your archers, being ideally in a wooded hill, will buy some time against them. Ambush distances between armies are very close, so you must watch both your cavalry and the enemy's cavalry. If the enemy charges your melee infantry, you can hold your ground while you pound arrows into their rear. If they chase your cavalry, you can easily get them out of the way, only to flank them later. The ambush distances are relatively short so by the time the other side catches up with the enemy, they should be "dynamic" or at worst "a little tired" -- but not a bad gamble because the enemy will be equally tired.

Dividing your forces in an ambush -- if they are inferior numerically to begin with, is risky, but promises great leverage. Ambushes are also ideally, a two-general operation, though it is also more troublesome to manage two generals on the opposite sides of the map at normal speed, if both are actively involved in the battle.

Remember that generals can carry your ambush forward and then dismount; if they are infantry leaders, they can "stand and fight" and inspire your nearby troops, which is even better. Don't underestimate this ability. This can considerably multiply the strength of individual ambush groups on different sides of the map, truly, catching the enemy in a tight sandwich.

If fighting against a stronger enemy, choose an ambush spot that is not only forested but hilly. Of course, you can use an ambush to ensure complete victory over a weaker enemy, and to minimise casualties. In this case, a hilly ambush is not necessary.

[This message has been edited by Swra Latckretcnin (edited 10-19-2011 @ 04:58 AM).]

Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 10-24-11 10:43 AM EDT (US)     6 / 14       
One thing I often find difficult in ambushes is keeeping track of what's going on. Because you're so close to the enemy and you're usually attacking from all sides things can get chaotic. Anyone else have problems with this?

          Hussarknight
Natalinasmpf
Banned
posted 10-24-11 11:32 AM EDT (US)     7 / 14       
Oh I do. It can get tricky at normal speed. But the chaos is part of the fun.

One thing you can do if the terrain isn't that awesome for your ambush and if you are archer heavy, is to use ashigaru yari spear walls. I didn't realise how good spear walls were. Samurai units can charge spear walls and they can hold their own if you have a general and "encourage" key units.

The spear walls can hold off the enemy long enough while your archers behind them do their work, and for your other side(s) to close the gap. BAM. You do this if the enemy decides to apply his entire force against one part of your force (which is the hardest scenario).

I wish there was some really good ambush terrain -- don't they have narrow passes in Japan?

If you're playing Date, you get No-Dachi samurai at the beginning....this unit is critical. As the game progresses to the extent that you would be able to produce No-Dachi samurai, ambush becomes less necessary....I guess until you hit those ___ &%#@ realm divide moments.

Which I am preparing to do -- right now am playing it carefully, I have 15 provinces at 1571 and haven't hit it yet. I've built every province to have land consolidation (which at 5000 koku per turn net income isn't hard), and am preparing to declare war on a major power near Kyoto (13 provinces and "terrifying"), and take Kyoto itself, in short order.

It's kind of annoying that any vassals you acquire post-RD get a diplomatic penalty again when you take Kyoto. So I am making sure any RD event and any Kyoto-taking event are close to each other time-wise. That way I am free to take new vassals without worrying about their loyalty.

[This message has been edited by Swra Latckretcnin (edited 10-24-2011 @ 11:38 AM).]

Liam_the_Spartan
Banned
posted 10-24-11 12:15 PM EDT (US)     8 / 14       
I find that ambushes aren't as good as earlier Total War games. You start too far from the enemy, and when your opponent is the AI then they organise pretty quickly.
Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 10-27-11 02:12 PM EDT (US)     9 / 14       
They're also more difficult to pull of, since it seems there's less wood in Japan than in Europe. I didn't really like ambushes in Empire and Napoleon, but I absolutely loved them in Rome.

          Hussarknight
Scipii
TWH Seraph
posted 11-02-11 11:01 PM EDT (US)     10 / 14       
I wish there was a way to play with the "limitations" of Legendary mode but with the difficulty of Normal or Hard. For campaign difficulty that is, since you can adjust battle difficulty via the menu in the campaign (or it was last time I played Legendary). I'm not good enough to win on Legendary mode yet, but I like the things it brings to the table.

Also, I don't think I have every managed to ambush an enemy army, so I haven't even experienced one. The AI always seems to walk on past, fight me in a pitched battle, or doesn't march in to my trap.
Hussarknight
Seraph Emeritus
posted 11-05-11 12:13 PM EDT (US)     11 / 14       
Since the latest patch you can use "Battle Realism Mode" on all difficulty levels. Is that what you are looking for Scipii?

          Hussarknight
Scipii
TWH Seraph
posted 11-08-11 06:34 AM EDT (US)     12 / 14       
Yeah that's probable, shall have to check it out.

That's what you get for playing Shogun 2 mainly in co-op and not being the host . Actually maybe that is why I forgot all about that option, it might not even be present in Shogun 2's co-op campaigns. It probably is but when your friend is always hosting the game you kind of forget what options there are at times.

[This message has been edited by Scipii (edited 11-08-2011 @ 06:35 AM).]

Natalinasmpf
Banned
posted 12-14-11 07:08 PM EDT (US)     13 / 14       
Oda may be "hard" but it's actually quite promising on Legendary. If you play your cards right you can easily overtake the Tokugawa, Imagawa and the Saito within 20 turns.

I've won as Shimazu on the short campaign. Samurai matchlock units are sooo awesome.

The Uesugi's development is much slower, though. Currently I have one province and am being besieged by both the Jinbo and the Takeda; and for once Yamanouchi didn't fall to the Takeda.
Natalinasmpf
Banned
posted 12-20-11 06:13 PM EDT (US)     14 / 14       
On Uesugi, I am more reliant on (friendly) vassals more than ever.

Send an ashigaru unit (spearmen, to defend yourself against sudden enemy general charges) to defend the Yamanouchi when you can spare one; the purpose of this is twofold -- one is to force the battle into siege rather than autoresolve, thus favouring the defenders; the second is that you can catch routers.

Usually the main battle will be over before your reinforcements ever make it up the hill, but with each battle you can often catch 250-500 worth of enemy routers, leaving the remnants so small that many of the routing units will be destroyed when you return to the campaign map. It's very easy to get four/five unit promotions this way.

Doing this will allow the Yamanouchi to prevail against three of your likely enemies: the Takeda, Hojo and Ashina.

I would have also done this to the Jinbo (who I annexed but got swallowed up by the Hatano and the Takaoka), but I didn't reinforce them in time.

That single ashigaru unit also managed to save a second province the Yamanouchi conquered, when they lost a key battle with the Ashina, because they didn't camp in the provincial castle. Their main force retreated all the way to their capital, leaving a token force behind in the second province, which only had two archers to prevail against six (worn down) samurai archer units. The melee units fled, but my reinforcements made it up the hill (marching) and then played hide and seek with the archers. Eventually the archers routed (in my direction) and were destroyed.

[This message has been edited by Swra Latckretcnin (edited 12-20-2011 @ 06:26 PM).]

You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Total War: Shogun 2 Heaven | HeavenGames