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Total War: Shogun 2 Heaven » Forums » Total War History » The Celts
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Topic Subject:The Celts
Scenter102
Ashigaru
posted 09-13-12 05:26 PM EDT (US)         
So I have been reading Polybiuos, and he mentions Celts a lot, but it is my understanding that he talks of the Gauls; are they related or is it an error on Polybius's account?

Also, how dow you pronounce celt, (selt) or (kelt)?
AuthorReplies:
Thompsoncs
Ashigaru
posted 09-13-12 06:10 PM EDT (US)     1 / 12       
Celts is a broader term than Gauls. Gauls was the name Romans had for people living in what is roughly France today. Belgae were also Celtic, Britons were at least partially related to Celts. There also Celtiberians in Spain and Celts in Asia, being the Galatians.

I think it is kelt, since I think the c is always pronounced as k in latin. But I might be wrong, never had any Latin lessons.
Warlod Redvig
Ashigaru
posted 09-14-12 01:57 AM EDT (US)     2 / 12       
I've always heard Celt with a K, although there's a football team in Scotland called Celtic, but pronounced with a S :P

It is pleasant, when the sea is high and the winds are dashing the waves about, to watch from the shores the struggles of another - Lucretius
ShieldWall
Ashigaru
posted 09-14-12 03:38 AM EDT (US)     3 / 12       
You pronounce Celt as "Kelt", only the football club is said as "seltic". If you read books about the Celts, the first thing everyone tries to make clear is that the word Celt is a complete misnomer. Celtic is a language, and a modern broad term used to describe the peoples who shared the same culture, stretching from Spain to Ireland, Britain, France, Switzerland, northern Italy, and stretching down to the Black Sea broadly around the Danube with others in central Turkey. But as people, originally "Celts" only referred to those who lived in the area of northern Italy and round to southern France. As far as the Romans were concerned, Gaul, Britannia, etc were separate.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 09-14-12 03:43 AM EDT (US)     4 / 12       
Properly it is 'Keltic', and it applies to a wide-ranging group of tribes sharing a similar culture and similar languages. There was no united Celtic Empire or Kingdom- each tribe was a nation unto itself. They spread across Europe (originating from the Germanic forests and mountains, according to one source) and spread west and south.

The Romans called them Gauls, the Greeks Keltoi. They are supposed to have spread to Britannia, Ireland, Spain, France, northern Italy, Switzerand, the Balkans, and a few tribes ended up in central Turkey, where they became the Galatians.

In some places they became the overwhelming majority of people, as in Gaul. In others they were simply rulers, while in other areas, like Spain, they assimilated in such numbers that they changed the local population- from Iberian to Celtiberian.

Edorix will probably pop by with the details of the Celts in Britannia, so I will leave that to him.

Their main strength in dispersion was their numbers and strong tribal unity, and their internecine fighting which drove tribes to migrate. Their main weakness in dispersion was their internecine fighting which left open possibilities for 'divide and conquer' and inability to untie in the face of disaster.

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Thompsoncs
Ashigaru
posted 09-14-12 05:21 AM EDT (US)     5 / 12       
If I remember correctly, Romans only used the term Gauls for the Celts living in France. And Caesar divides them in 3 large subgroups, being Aquitanians, Gauls and Belgae. And of course those were far from united.
Terikel Grayhair
Imperator
(id: Terikel706)
posted 09-14-12 05:43 AM EDT (US)     6 / 12       
The Cisalpine Gauls of the Po Valley were also Gauls, as were the ones defeated at Telamon. Hell, some people considered the Picentines (a Roman tribe- notably that of Pompeius) as Gauls.

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Alex_the_Bold
Ashigaru
posted 09-14-12 02:39 PM EDT (US)     7 / 12       
Well, Scenter, I think that Polybius considers Celts as the people living in northern Italy and Gaul. I'm not sure though, so I have to read it again before telling you for sure. Regarding the word Celt, I've been pronouncing it as Kelt, considering it as a word coming from the Greek "Keltis" (plural Keltai) (Κελτηs/Κελται.

Invincibility lies in defence, while the possibility of victory in the attack -Sun Tzu
Akouson me, pataxon de (hit me, but first listen to me)-Themistocles to Euribiadis prior to the battle of Salamis.
Thompsoncs
Ashigaru
posted 09-14-12 06:37 PM EDT (US)     8 / 12       
Since Polybius is mostly writing about the Punic Wars, I suppose he means celts from either south France or celtiberians, since they are most likely to fight as mercenaries for Carthage.
Pitt
Daimyo
posted 09-15-12 08:20 AM EDT (US)     9 / 12       
Ancient Greek didn't have a letter C, and Romans pronounced it as a hard-C (i.e. K).

From this we conclude that whoever started the 'seltic' pronunciation was a fool.

"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins
Scenter102
Ashigaru
posted 09-15-12 08:32 AM EDT (US)     10 / 12       
I was right!
May all the Celtic Football team fans burn for mispronouncing Celts and telling people that can pronounce it that they are wrong.
Pitt
Daimyo
posted 09-15-12 09:01 AM EDT (US)     11 / 12       
Reluctant as I am to endorse defeatism, it's probably too late to change that pronunciation in the sporting arena. The best that can be done is to prevent it polluting history.


"Into the face of the young man who sat on the terrace of the Hotel Magnifique at Cannes there had crept a look of furtive shame, the shifty, hangdog look which announces that an Englishman is about to talk French." - P.G. Wodehouse, The Luck of the Bodkins

[This message has been edited by Pitt (edited 09-15-2012 @ 09:02 AM).]

Scenter102
Ashigaru
posted 09-15-12 09:46 AM EDT (US)     12 / 12       
Or we could outlaw the false sport that is American football and replace it with the sport of football (soccer).
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